Boundless Podcast: Romy Rost on leadership, freelancing & coaching as a skill (Episode 13)

[01:00] Paul: Welcome to The Boundless Podcast. I'm Paul Millerd and I created this podcast because I'm passionate about making sense of the future of work and having conversations with the innovators, creators, and thought leaders who are carving their path in today's fast-changing world. You can check out the podcast and more on boundlesspod.com. Tanya, thanks for joining me on the podcast today. I'm looking forward to talking with you.

[01:32] Tanya Alvarez: Thanks, Paul. Super excited.

[01:34] Paul: Awesome. So we met at an event talking about entrepreneurship and I left wanting to learn more about your path and what drove you to start your current company, OwnersUp, which is a platform that's helping solopreneurs like me build connection and reach their goals. We'll definitely dive into that, but I want to start in a different place. So you have an interesting background. You grew up in Miami and you said you always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I'd love to start with a story I stumbled across you shared of your first startup when you were given a cash register at 4 years old.

Can you tell me about that?

[02:12] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, so I was raised by a single mom and I have two older sisters. My little brother wasn't born yet. And I remember like they were always playing Monopoly and my older sisters are like 7 years to 8 years older than me. So I wanted this cash register because, you know, when you play Monopoly money, it's fun. And my mom was always about entertaining. So she was having this party and I was like, hmm, I'm going to go with my pigtails.

Probably that's what I was assuming. I had no clue when I was 4 years old. I'm going to stand right in front where the door is and I'm going to charge each person for going into the party. And of course, you know, Imagine a 4-year-old right there sitting there, like, greeting everybody and asking for money and then being like, hey, this is like— and I was saying numbers that were crazy because I was used to Monopoly money, right? And I was getting some of it. And my mom all of a sudden just sees me with a bunch of cash and she's like, what are you doing?

And I'm like, I'm using this cash register. So yes, I guess that was my first time in— what would you call that? Event planning?

[03:16] Paul: I like it. How much money did you make off the guests?

[03:20] Tanya Alvarez: I don't know, but I think I got— I was into cars, so I got like a Hot Wheel car. I'm sure my mom like gave the money back and like gave me a Hot Wheel car. But I'm going to ask my mom about that, how much I made.

[03:33] Paul: Yeah, definitely follow up. So did you have any other entrepreneurial ventures as you got older?

[03:39] Tanya Alvarez: Well, it's funny that you say that. I always started like, I was always thinking about selling things throughout, and I had this journal where I would write like, I wanted to open up a toy store, right? So I would write down all my toy ideas because I thought the adults just didn't know how to make toys, and I wish I had that right now. But one thing I always recommend to other friends is Girl Scouts, right? And I remember going to Girl Scouts, like, that's a technique, selling those Girl Scout cookies, and then you really get to understand entrepreneurship. Selling.

[04:13] Paul: Yeah, I mean, those cookies are damn good, but I think it's, you encounter some of them in the train stations and some people are really hustling, getting after you and you're like, I have to buy these cookies.

[04:28] Tanya Alvarez: So they can get their badge, of course.

[04:31] Paul: Exactly. So you, you ended up going on and going to an amazing college in Wellesley. What did you learn there that kind of helped shape your, what what your path would become?

[04:47] Tanya Alvarez: So at Wellesley, I learned— so Wellesley's an all-female school. Right. Weird, 'cause some people might not know, 'cause I know when I was growing up in Miami, I didn't know what Wellesley was. I thought maybe it was a community college. It's well known up there, like Hillary Clinton, Madeleine Albright, but in Florida, you're used to University of Miami.

[05:06] Paul: Right.

[05:06] Tanya Alvarez: University of Florida, right? So what I learned at Wellesley was like, I was doing really well in my high school. I was like probably top 2, top 3% over there, right? Athletics, you know, and academics, I was strong. There's some people stronger than me. And, but at Wellesley, wow, it was a whole nother level of like intelligence and grit and ambition.

And then also learning how to collaborate and then encourage one another to succeed.

[05:40] Paul: Right.

[05:40] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah.

[05:41] Paul: I mean, you probably went to school with like some future president or at least hope.

[05:48] Tanya Alvarez: Actually, there's some of my friends are like one of the few female venture capitalists. Wow.

[05:53] Paul: That's pretty awesome. That's great. So you said you wanted to be an entrepreneur growing up, but you still ended up in the corporate world. Talk to me about how that happened and where your head was at during that.

[06:09] Tanya Alvarez: So right out of college, I only did the corporate for a bit, but I did the summer internships also in, um, in college. I— Wellesley, they produce investment bankers, doctors, at least when I was going there, they produce investment bankers, doctors, the typical route, and nobody was really into the startup route. Um, and in 2000, when I graduated, the bubble just burst, right? The internet bubble. And I was like determined to go into a startup. And when you recruited, you had Goldman Sachs and all those companies, recruiting.

So what I ended up doing was I ended up going to corporate. I said no to American Express. Then I said, went to, I forgot what the company was. It was like corporate, but still startup. It was a sales and trading foreign currency platform. And then I was going from startup to startup to startup until I was 25.

I was working crazy hours. I didn't care what I was doing. I wanted to learn everything from like cleaning and arranging the desk to From doing like PDFs to anything, I would say yes, yes, yes. And always make myself available to do more work.

[07:18] Paul: Well, it was probably a good time given, I bet a lot of people weren't actually pursuing that path after the bubble crashed.

[07:26] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah. Most people in corporate, they went back into investment banking and I had some friends who were recruiting me and I just looked at them. I'm like, you're working crazy hours. Like, this is nuts. And she's like, well, make good money. And I was like, but you don't look so good.

[07:41] Paul: Yeah, it's, uh, I know for me it's almost the, uh, the certainty of that is the challenge. Like, I don't want to know exactly what I'm going to be doing every day. Um, it's more kind of chasing that challenge and, uh, continuous learning. So when, when did you get it in your head that you, okay, I'm going to start my own company now? I think you started it around 25, but, uh, walk me through how you got to that point.

[08:10] Tanya Alvarez: So it was probably about the fourth startup I was at, and at this point I already got myself to VP in a short amount of time. And I was like, wow, I could run this. I'm practically running this. My boss is on a cruise for the next 2 months and I'm running this. And so at that point I was like, I can do this, but I was— there's still some fear in me. And I remember making that decision, like, do I jump and just do this?

And I asked my mother and I was like, hey, should I start my business? She's like, yeah, of course. And I'm like, uh, what happens if I fail? And she's like, well, you'll be exactly where you are now. And I was like, that's true. And I go, what happens if nobody wants to hire me because I failed?

And she goes, you wouldn't want to be in that culture. And so I went for it. Most parents would not do that.

[09:00] Paul: My mom goes like, That's fascinating.

[09:02] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah. I think it's because we grew up in like a lot of times in poverty and stuff. It's like, what else do you have to lose? The only thing you can absolutely lose is your health and your family. That's meaningful, right? Everything else you can always build up.

So we've always learned that. So I went for it.

[09:21] Paul: I love it. So much wisdom from your mother. Where, where does that come from in her, you think?

[09:27] Tanya Alvarez: Um, she was, she came from Colombia and she moved over here at the age of 19. She was the first one in her family and she has like about 5 other siblings. So I think she was just more of a risk taker. And then her first child had osteogenesis imperfecta, which is brittle bone disease. So my oldest sister, who's a little firecracker and a feisty, audacious woman, she was breaking her bones. So by the time she was like 2 or 3 years old, she's already broken like, I don't know, over 50 bones.

So imagine coming from another country, getting married here, and then your first child is disabled, right? And it's one that a lot of people say— there's only about 40,000 people, I believe, that have this, and the severity varies. So imagine, like, they don't know anything about it yet, and it could look like it's child abuse, but it's really just bones. Breaking in your collagen.

[10:29] Paul: Wow, that's fascinating. Yeah, so it's that looking at resilience and risk differently. I think so many people, so many people struggle with that. I, uh, in my coaching work, I'll have people go through that exercise to say, okay, how could you get back to where you are today? And usually it's one email to an old colleague and say, hey, will you rehire me? And once they do that, they go, okay, I don't really have a lot to lose here.

Have you seen that in other people as well who are kind of scared to change things up?

[11:04] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, I always tell members if they're about to do a big jump, I was like, what's your worst case scenario?

[11:09] Paul: Right.

[11:11] Tanya Alvarez: And then they realize their worst case scenario isn't that bad.

[11:14] Paul: Right.

[11:15] Tanya Alvarez: And then they go for it, yeah.

[11:17] Paul: I always have people mentally kind of visualize who— I bet everyone has 50 people in their life who would take them in, feed them, and give them shelter. But we kind of have this mindset that we're out there on our own in today's world, but in reality, I mean, I tell people, "Hey, if nobody's going to take you in, I guess you can come live with me and I'll feed you as well." That's very nice.

[11:41] Tanya Alvarez: You might have a list of people now.

[11:44] Paul: No problem. I haven't had anyone take me up on it yet, so still waiting for that first person. So you started your first company, Blink Ads. And you're focused on a performance-based marketing agency. You were, you're pretty much at the cutting edge of this, uh, doing a lot of this online marketing before— I mean, it's so pervasive now, um, but what— why that kind of firm and, uh, why at that time did you start it?

[12:15] Tanya Alvarez: It was the Wild West of online advertising.

[12:19] Paul: Yeah.

[12:20] Tanya Alvarez: And I love creating things. And I love being part of it. And the interesting part is now, and now you are, you're right, it's everywhere. And then there's also this whole, today's Women's Day, Happy Women's Day. And why I bring that up is like, there's not that many women in that industry. I was one of the few, right?

Especially one of the few women business owners. So there's barely any women employees in there, you know. And now I was one of the few, one, the business owner. So I thought that was really cool. And why did I get into it? I just I love that.

I didn't have to take on an advertiser just to take it on. I would say, hey, let me look at your campaign. Let me look at everything. And if I generate this much, you pay me per sale or lead. So I got to choose my clients who I want to work with because I was confident I was going to be able to produce some sales and leads. So that's performance-based marketing.

[13:15] Paul: So what, what were some of the lessons you learned? You ran that for quite a while. And what were some of the challenges and lessons that emerged over the years?

[13:26] Tanya Alvarez: Oh, so many. So that was my first business, right? People always like—

[13:30] Paul: probably crazy in the first year, especially.

[13:33] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, actually, I was fortunate. Yeah, I was, I was able to grow it over $1 million within the first year. I worked really hard. Um, so many lessons there. I remember one client who didn't pay $100,000, and you know, when you go outside and you ask advice, people are like, just sue them. Actually, that's not the best answer, right?

Yeah, because suing takes a lot of time, a lot of energy, just a number of things. So you just got to see the signs. That was one of my biggest lessons. And then hiring people and putting systems together. So sometimes it's all in your head, and what ends up happening, you hire the first person, you kind of train them, and then they end up hiring people, but there's no system there, right?

[14:14] Paul: Right.

[14:15] Tanya Alvarez: So there's a lot of Mistakes I made. Yeah.

[14:19] Paul: So how do you think about internalizing systems around people and hiring? That's something I'm pretty fascinated with, and I think it's still just very hard.

[14:31] Tanya Alvarez: So when you think the only way, like a really good book is called Built to Sell.

[14:37] Paul: Yeah.

[14:37] Tanya Alvarez: And I don't know, have you read it yet?

[14:39] Paul: I haven't, no.

[14:40] Tanya Alvarez: So it's not Basically, it's not about like building a company itself, but it's really about thinking about how to niche your product, your service, and then how to eventually make it such a process that you can actually systemize it and runs without you if needed.

[14:55] Paul: Right.

[14:57] Tanya Alvarez: And so everyone thinks that we're like a special snowflake and our business can't— like the manual is not there, or, you know, there's so many special instructions. But the easier it is to put something together, the more powerful your team is and the more everybody knows that they're contributing to each other. And everyone can have that lifestyle they want. So if like they were missing, if they wanted to take off for a month, they could because you have a system in place to have it run.

[15:24] Paul: So with Blink Ads, when did you decide it was time to take the next step or move on from that?

[15:31] Tanya Alvarez: I think it was, we were 8 years in, we were expanding and that excitement for growing a business now, it was just growing and we were doing well, but I wanted something different. I, I wasn't— I realized I'm a person who likes building things, but I'm not a person who likes maintaining a business or going to that next level in that sense. And what I mean by the next level is, um, where do I want this to go? Do I want this to be a company that sells for tons? Like, what is that level? And I want to— and I had an opportunity at the same time to be a partner of a company called Spokesmops.

And that was when I was like, okay, I have to make a decision because they put me as— at first I was a CMO and then they put me as a CEO to raise money. And I was like, oh, okay. So they were like, you're the one that has the credentials to raise money. And I felt like I've never raised money. I was like, I only bootstrapped. So when we were raising money, we had an investor who was interested in us.

He was going through the due diligence. I really had to think about it. married at the time and I didn't have kids. And I had to think, if I take down this money, is this what I'm passionate about? Because I know myself to be a person who will risk it all just to succeed. And I actually resigned.

And that was a really big change for me. So here I was, I moved off from Blinkads to go to Spokes Moms, went through this whole thing, excited about the women movement of moms and everything. And then when we're about to raise money, I I was like, is this what I really want? Because I might not be a mother or a family because I'll be spending all that time working crazy hours. And that's just me. Maybe someone else is different.

But I know that if someone gave me the responsibility of, of like a million, $2 million, and making sure that I can 10 times that, I'm going to give it all I got.

[17:33] Paul: Right.

[17:34] Tanya Alvarez: And so I resigned. I did some really thinking about my life and I took off to Vietnam. And just traveled. And I was like, what am I really passionate about? What do I want my legacy to be?

[17:47] Paul: So how long did you, how long did you go travel for?

[17:51] Tanya Alvarez: Travel about like, I would say it was like 2 months to a month, 2, 2 weeks to a month, and just kind of like going back. And then I went to back to my family for a bit and then just took a sabbatical, right? And thought about things like how that next jump was going to be.

[18:07] Paul: So I'm curious about this. Did it take a while for your mind to kind of like unwind from those opportunities and kind of the hard work you had been doing to start thinking about what is, what are those things that matter to you?

[18:19] Tanya Alvarez: Yes, it did. It almost took, um, the shock took a bit. That was like the biggest, like people were like, oh, starting your business, was that a shocker? I was like, no, because you're just in action.

[18:30] Paul: Right.

[18:30] Tanya Alvarez: But when you're like total, it's like, uh, physics, right? Something moving, then suddenly stopping. It's just like, you're just like, what did I do? Did I make a mistake? Where's my identity? It was basically, what is my identity now?

[18:42] Paul: Right. Yeah. So you almost lost that and what you had done in the past, or at least it was diminished and you're trying to redefine a new identity moving forward.

[18:52] Tanya Alvarez: Mm-hmm. An identity that I'm more aligned to. Yeah. And more of like, um, I think in my 20s I was driven by making others happy. Yeah, and maybe status and ego and what can I achieve, right? Because I was kind of excited to see what I could do, right?

Like, I was already against the odds. Like, oh, what's a percentage of this woman going to a top school? What is the percentage of this woman starting the company? What is this woman— you know, it's already that the odds are against me. And it was kind of fun to find those odds. But now I was like, well, I'm unhappy.

[19:30] Paul: Yeah, that's, uh, that's fascinating. I think I meet so many people that, especially in your 20s, and this resonates with me as well, just trying to prove people wrong. Um, it can drive you, but it's not sustainable, right? Once you've proved enough people wrong, it's like, all right, you need to figure out what you actually want to do then.

[19:51] Tanya Alvarez: Exactly. And then what is it that makes you really happy?

[19:55] Paul: So what makes you really happy?

[19:58] Tanya Alvarez: When— so I did this kind of exercise, like, what are my values? And then I always tell people to, when you write your values, have somebody challenge your values, right? So I used to think, oh, a value for others that I like is ambition, but it's actually work ethic. And you have to challenge it because ambitious could be like people just like screwing one another over just to get to the top.

[20:21] Paul: Right.

[20:22] Tanya Alvarez: Where work ethic is something that like has integrity in it, right? So I'm going on a little bit of a tangent, but so I went through the values and I'm like, what is it that lights me up? So I wrote a list of everything I get excited about when I have conversations, the whole thing. And then it was like, what do I enjoy doing and what do I wish I had? Because I was a— I've been a long-distance runner since I was 14 years old and I went to college and I competed there. And I always liked the team sport, but it's an individual sport, but you're in a team.

So you all have goals and then you're in a team kind of encouraging one another. And so I put that same concept into Owners Up.

[21:04] Paul: That's fascinating. So how long, how long was the total sabbatical and when did you start moving on Owners Up? Just in terms of that timeline.

[21:17] Tanya Alvarez: I don't know the exact timeline. It felt— looking back now, it feels very fast, but when I was in it, it was like slow motion, right? And I felt like that the 25-year-old, you know, if I saw my 25-year-old who just jumped, now all of a sudden I'm more experienced and I'm a little hesitant because now it's really aligned to what I want, and now I'm actually scared to fail. Because if it's something you really want that's pretty scary because if you fail, then wait, what is it that it is? So I had to have a bit of encouragement. So I had friends being like, this is a great idea, and then literally just like pushing me.

And I was like, I don't know about this. And one of my friends created a website for me. So it was like, it's happening. So it was funny, like when you're in your 20s, I— you just jump, at least for me. And then later on, I needed a community to encourage me.

[22:12] Paul: Yeah, so that was something that really jumped out looking at Owners Up. You talk about building connection, and I think your origin story, you talked about joining some of these mastermind groups in which there were just a lot of people. You had a hard time connecting and you were thinking to yourself, why am I going to open up to these people? So how, how did you, how do you think about connection in terms of what you're doing, especially with solopreneurs? That are working on their own a lot of the time?

[22:42] Tanya Alvarez: So connection is a hard one. Most solopreneurs are isolated, and there's this whole thing that we're on Facebook and there's so many communities out there and we're supposed to be like connected, but what's really happening is we're just comparing ourselves. We're going on there, reading this stuff and being, why am I not successful? Why am I not this? Why am I not that level? Where the other person's just posting everything that makes them look great.

You know, there's some people who are going to be open and vulnerable, and those are the amazing groups to be in. And you're probably going to read those things, but are you the person who comments about it?

[23:17] Paul: Right.

[23:17] Tanya Alvarez: So what I— so with Owners Up, we put entrepreneurs in groups of 5, and then we allow that open transparency to happen where you can actually come find other people and kind of be like, hey, this is what I'm dealing with, anybody have some actions to take. And I think it starts off with like the leadership, right? I'm always open about what I had to go through, what are some of the challenges I went through, so it opens up that dialogue, right?

[23:43] Paul: Yeah. What are— so we actually met, we were both on a panel where we were talking about entrepreneurship, and I kind of felt a bit weird being on the panel because I don't really see myself as an entrepreneur. I kind of see myself, I guess this solopreneur tag would fit. But how do you think about these different models of how people are creating in today's world? Where would it— how do you define like solopreneur and who the types of people you're working with?

[24:15] Tanya Alvarez: So the people I'm working with are overachievers, right, who ended up like doing really well in the corporate or whatever it is that got them to where they were. And then they were either doing well and making money, but they had to sacrifice something. It was either sacrificing time with their family and friends or sacrificing something in their health. And now they want to start a business and they're creating something that's, that's impact. They love what they're doing. Right.

So what we help, what we help is, um, have entrepreneurs, we help them work smart so they can enjoy life and continue making that impact. And I think more and more people are starting, like we generally, um, I would say 80% of our businesses are service-based business. And service-based business are the easiest ones to start off, right? Because you don't have inventory, you don't have investment, and you can do it wherever you want in the world if that's what you want to travel, right? Similar to what you're doing. And those are the ones that usually, if it's a service you really are passionate about giving back.

So yeah, I would say that the solopreneurs are popping up everywhere, and it just depends on why are you doing this. Right? There's other people who are doing it for the money. Those are not the ones like we are. We encourage people to be profitable, but not just driven by, by money. It's profitable, but you're enjoying your life.

[25:42] Paul: Yeah, that's, that definitely resonates with, I think, what I'm trying to do as well. But how, how do you have those conversations around money? Especially, I mean, people, that are doing this kind of work really are just passionate about the work they're doing. How do you help people think about money as both a part of their business and not something that's going to hold them back from staying motivated and creative?

[26:10] Tanya Alvarez: Hmm. So, so it's more along the lines of the question is like some, some people don't like to look at numbers, right? And they don't like to like deal with their finances and like, oh, is this another numbers thing? I want to make a difference. So I think numbers is a way to, to help you understand where you're going. So it's like running, someone could be passionate about running, but if you don't have anything that you can measure, it's going to be easy for you to give up.

[26:38] Paul: Right.

[26:39] Tanya Alvarez: So when you have some numbers, it's kind of like, how many people do you want to impact? Great. And then we kind of go back with the impact with numbers and we remind them of what they want. What they want to do, their why. We always have every entrepreneur tell us what their why is, right?

[26:56] Paul: So it's, it's defining those things about how they want to live, what kind of freedom they're trying to create for themselves, and how they want to be with their connections and family or friends and things like that.

[27:08] Tanya Alvarez: Mm-hmm.

[27:09] Paul: That's awesome. So what are some of the challenges you see most in the groups that you help facilitate?

[27:18] Tanya Alvarez: Most entrepreneurs are in servicing their clients and that is it. So they're in retention mode. And so what ends up happening, they do a lot of sales and then they go off for 3 or 4 months and then just kind of are in retention mode. And then so they're going through the cycle of like tons of money, not so much money, just consistent tons of money, not so much. So the feast and famine cycle. So what we do is we help them realize how they can start producing, like generating leads and sell in a consistent way where it's not one that's like, oh, this month is sales, I got to do this or else I can't pay this.

[27:55] Paul: Yeah. So it's about integrating those, those actions, kind of the small things you want to do every day to just, just keep consistent and basically putting your, your views, your perspectives, your stories out there.

[28:08] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah. And we have them help them put a system together so that they can find prospects. And it's not one of those where it's like, I gotta make phone calls and, oh, most of these people are word of mouth, right? And we like to get them past the word of mouth stage.

[28:25] Paul: How are you thinking about defining success, uh, in your life today?

[28:31] Tanya Alvarez: So I'm on a big mission to, um, right now more than 80%, even 90% of companies fail within the first 5 years. A small percentage barely even make a million. I think a million really doesn't— someone can make a million and be happy, some can make a million and be unhappy, just depends on the person. I just want more people there making a difference. So how do I define success? Is having people— I'm able to impact people so they can have a community.

I'm all about team. I think everybody in their life should have, I guess, Some people, millennials, call it squad. Everyone should have a squad. And I personally have a squad for almost everything I'm tackling in my life. Even me getting married, I had a squad. I had a squad of people kind of checking out, like I had my sisters swiping left and right for me on Tinder.

Yeah, it was great. And then I had, I have a default, meaning I, what I call a default is something that stops you, right? And when you're scared, my default is I like to— when things get serious, I sabotage relationships because I'm so scared of getting hurt. So I had, uh, friends making sure I didn't sabotage things when I was getting scared. So back to the question, I just went off on a little tangent. The question was like defining success.

To me right now, uh, my husband and I are— we are in the baby-making process. And what I want to do is be a place where I am making a difference, growing my company, traveling, and just enjoying life to the fullest.

[30:14] Paul: I know you've traveled a lot. What role has travel played in your learning process and development?

[30:22] Tanya Alvarez: I— so throughout my early 20s until now, I always go to a third world country or like a developing country, some say. And I love that because I'm I'm immersing myself into a complete, like, culture that sometimes when you see them, they might be the poorest people, but they are some of the happiest people I've ever seen. And then it's also like, I'm coming from New York where I'm used to having everything like 24/7, and then just— and you get so used to like everybody around you being super successful, then you go to these countries and you're just like, wow, you get back to what is really important. Your health, right, family and friends.

[31:03] Paul: Well, the weird thing is, I mean, I lived in New York for 2 years. A lot of, a lot of people you would think are quote-unquote successful are not very happy or not happy with how they're spending their time.

[31:14] Tanya Alvarez: Mm-hmm. They're working crazy hours. Yeah. And so what happens is they make all this money and then they use— they go shopping or they go nice dinners to kind of like help them numb their work, what they're doing in their life, right? I think everybody at one point has done that.

[31:32] Paul: For sure, yeah. I don't have the answer for that, but definitely something I noticed very specific to New York. So how are you thinking about health and exercise? I know that's a big role for you as you're building this business and focusing on community.

[31:51] Tanya Alvarez: Exercise is huge for me. That is my stress reliever. Some people meditate. I meditate, but meditation wasn't an easy one for me. But working out, I wake up every morning, I work out. Um, I just think that, uh, so I found out that I have my oldest sister's, uh, bone disease right when I was in my 30s.

So I have the less severe version of osteogenesis Imperfecta, which is brittle bones, which is a collagen mutation. And during when I was growing up, I didn't know I had it, but when I looked at my sister, I would always be just so grateful for being able to move and having her in my life, but really being appreciative. I remember one time I was in a dance class and she said, I want to quit dance class. And she's like, you can dance. Why would you quit? And that day I realized like, you know what, I'm going to go all out and my body is a temple.

Simple and really appreciate and be grateful for. So exercise is huge in my life.

[32:53] Paul: That's, uh, that's fascinating. Is that where gratitude and grit comes from, you think?

[32:59] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, absolutely. Grit is like passion and perseverance to keep going. And just, um, anytime, like when I was running and competing in races, I just, just really looked at my body and was like, wow, I can move. This is, this is great. Many people don't have that opportunity.

[33:16] Paul: That's great. So thinking about your path, you've done a lot of different things. What advice would you give to somebody that's either graduating college now or starting out early in their career?

[33:30] Tanya Alvarez: Oh, awesome. So they're graduating college. So if you're still in college, do as many internships as you can. I don't care if your workload is crazy. Look up Parkinson's Law, right? And Parkinson's Law is you basically fill up the amount of time you allot for yourself.

A quick little summary, right? So if you have 7 hours, you'll fill up those 7 hours. Like, you have one assignment, it'll take you 7 hours to do it. If you allow yourself 1 hour, you'll have 1 hour. But, um, so that excuse of not having enough time, like, just do the internships as much so you can figure out what you want. Now, if you graduate from college, and you're trying to find a job, I would like look at all the companies that you want to work for, look at the culture, look at the environment, and I recommend going for a startup.

Because a startup, you get a lot of experience. You might not get paid well in the beginning, but the good thing is if you're of value to them, you will get paid, right? In the beginning you might not, you might get paid pennies, but the experience, invaluable.

[34:32] Paul: Yeah, I was saying compared to the corporate world where if you're kicking ass, like you're likely just going to stay in your own role at your current salary.

[34:40] Tanya Alvarez: Unless you're like an investment banking or management consultant where you have bonuses, right?

[34:45] Paul: Right.

[34:46] Tanya Alvarez: But, um, and then the second part is— what was the second part of the question?

[34:51] Paul: Yeah, it's early career advice you would give to somebody that's trying to figure out how to carve a path. I think a lot of people I talk to— so I talk to a lot of people early career, and they'll hit that one or two jobs in the corporate world and they'll be like, okay, now what? Like, I didn't know that we were gonna run out of like a, a set path and they kind of have to figure out how to create their own, um, road in the future.

[35:17] Tanya Alvarez: I wouldn't do an exercise and say, what is it that you see yourself doing? What lights you up? Yeah. And like, where do you go when you go and research things? Like when you find yourself on the internet, what do you find? Are you drawn to reading about.

And then I would go on LinkedIn and look at these people's profiles and look at that and just reach out to them, right? There's few people that reach out to people via LinkedIn. I get a lot of requests. I always answer. Just reach out. What's the worst-case scenario, that they don't respond?

[35:52] Paul: Yes, especially if you have similar interests. I mean, when I have people that send things to me that say they're interested in the same things, like, I am just as excited to talk to them So I wish more people would did it. I mean, when I was graduating college, we didn't really have LinkedIn yet. So it's such an incredible resource.

[36:11] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, absolutely. You're right. We didn't have LinkedIn back. We would have to kind of somehow find their email address. There was no Facebook, at least when I graduated either.

[36:20] Paul: Right. Yeah. So to close, are there, there one or two books that have really helped shape your thinking in the past couple of years or even broader in your life?

[36:32] Tanya Alvarez: There's so many good books. I would have to look at my Kindle. I'm on— oh, there's— before I say that, there's this thing, and I really, really encourage everyone to do this: create a challenge each year for yourself.

[36:46] Paul: Yeah.

[36:47] Tanya Alvarez: And whether— and like, try to do it in each department of your life. So like, if it's just you're in a relationship, how can you make that person feel 30 days full of like feel acknowledged and loved, right? If it's your family, how can you talk to your mom? And like, for me, I call my mom when I'm walking home. So these are just random things. And the reason why I brought up the book one when you said that is I have one where I'm supposed to read 2 books a month.

And that's a lot for me considering everything I'm doing. So I'm like reading tons of books. I have to look at my Kindle, which one's like—

[37:22] Paul: How are you doing so far this year? Do you have 4 under your belt?

[37:26] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, I'm finishing. I'm like, I'm one behind. So right now I am reading How to Fail at Almost Everything. Wait, was that how it goes?

[37:43] Paul: Oh, is that the Scott Adams book?

[37:45] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah.

[37:45] Paul: Yeah, I love that book.

[37:48] Tanya Alvarez: It was really good. And then I just got a French bulldog, so How to Raise a Perfect Dog. But so I'm just trying to think, there's so many great books. Have you read the book SuperBetter?

[38:02] Paul: I've listened to a podcast about the concepts, but haven't read it yet.

[38:09] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, there's— I have to— that's a good question. What's some of your favorite books right now?

[38:14] Paul: Oh man, so many.

[38:15] Tanya Alvarez: Yeah, see, it's a tough one.

[38:18] Paul: I, I think, um, I have like the books of like, like meaning of life that really resonate with me. Like Last Lecture. Um, How Will You Measure Your Life, um, by Clayton Christensen. Man's Search for Meaning.

[38:31] Tanya Alvarez: I haven't heard that one. Man's Search for Meaning, that was recent for me too.

[38:34] Paul: Yeah, so.

[38:36] Tanya Alvarez: Measure Your Life, I haven't read that one.

[38:38] Paul: Um, but yeah, it's, uh, I read a lot, so it's, uh, it's always like what I've read lately. Big one for me has been Linchpin by Seth Godin. It's really about creating your own path and creating and putting, putting what you're good at out into the world. Well, thank you so much for chatting today. A lot of useful insights. I enjoyed hearing more about your story and how can people find out more if they want to learn more about what you're doing?

[39:10] Tanya Alvarez: Um, go to ownersup.com, follow us on Instagram, YouTube. We're going to be sharing more stories about entrepreneurs who just decided to start their business and make a difference.

[39:23] Paul: Awesome. I love it. Thanks again, Tanya.

[39:26] Tanya Alvarez: Thank you.