#149 "I will sell out Madison Square Garden" - Danny Miranda on starting a blog at 14, following your intuition, discipline, meditation, his podcast, retreats, masculinity, compassion, "The True Path", thinking big, and trusting The Universe

[00:59] Paul: Welcome to The Pathless Path. I'm Paul Millerd, and in this podcast, we examine the invisible scripts that run our lives and dare to imagine new stories for work and life. Today I am talking with Danny Miranda on The Pathless Path podcast. Uh, Danny's somebody I've gotten to really know in Austin here. He's moved here, I don't know, sometime this year in We moved here in 2022, but he's been really committing to his podcast, The Danny Miranda Podcast, over the past few years. He interviewed me when I was in Taiwan writing my book 2021 and was probably one of the first people that were like, your book's awesome, it's going to succeed.

And he seems to have an ability to see people that have magic and things lighting up inside them. It's been really cool to watch his journey up close, get to know him more as a person, as somebody that inspires me, motivates me to think differently, think bigger, way bigger than I normally think. Welcome to The Pathless Path podcast, Danny.

[02:09] Danny Miranda: Paul, it is an absolute pleasure to not only be here, but be your friend and get to know you deeper. So thank you for the kind introduction. and I'm excited to talk about whatever it is we're going to talk about today.

[02:20] Paul: So the first question I start with is, what are the stories and scripts you grew up with as a young kid that were what I should be thinking about what I become or what I'm doing as an adult?

[02:35] Danny Miranda: The scripts that I grew up with was that life is something to be lived with love, with family, with hard work, you can achieve anything you want. And we will have my family. We will have the support behind you, and we believe in you to achieve whatever it is you are setting out to achieve.

[02:58] Paul: A lot of people grew up with that story of you can do whatever you want in the US. And it turns out, once they become an adult, that wasn't really true. It was sort of like, you can do whatever you want as long as you go after a job that pays a lot of money. For you, did you have the sense that it was that expansive?

[03:16] Danny Miranda: Yeah. My mom and grandma listen to every podcast I publish, and pretty much I think they also listen to every podcast appearance where I'm the guest.

[03:27] Paul: So, oh, hey, Grandma. Hey, Mom.

[03:30] Danny Miranda: Yeah. So they not only say that, they really mean it. And And that is true for my grandpa as well. And my family as a whole is like, all right, you can actually do whatever it is you want to do.

[03:44] Paul: Yeah. Talk to me about your grandfather.

[03:48] Danny Miranda: Oh, man. My grandpa is the perfect role model for what it means to be somebody who lived life with discipline and love and really putting others on a pedestal in life, but also not doing that to the detriment of your own life and following what you want. He's somehow managed to coincide what it means to be selfish and selfless at the same time. And so for me, he's been a great role model for someone to aspire to. And I'm just really grateful to have lived in that presence for so long.

[04:27] Paul: Do you have any examples that jump out with him?

[04:30] Danny Miranda: Yeah, I mean, it's really just the care that he gives and the presence and the questions. I guess the best example would be if we were having a family dinner, he would take a situation and be like, okay, now what would you do in this situation? What do you think the right ethics are for this situation? And he was able to, and still does to this day, ask questions that show that he really cares about our own opinions and perspectives as little as when we were 2, 3, 4, 5 years old.

[05:02] Paul: So what about your grandmother? What stands out with her support?

[05:07] Danny Miranda: It's just imagine listening to 359 episodes of a podcast when you grew up, there was no such thing as a podcast, right? Like, to be in that, like, I've been given such a head start in life because of their love and support and the things that they've given me. And so just to live in that is just like, oh my God, I wish and pray. And what I'm trying to do with the podcast is give everyone the same experience that my grandparents gave to me and still give to me to this day.

[05:39] Paul: Yeah, I sense that comes out in you. I think the first time it really hit me is you were visiting Austin last year in 2022, and we took a walk around the river. Just your passion for life. I think sometimes you meet people. I mean, some people can be performatively positive. When I met you, though, I was like, holy crap, this is like coursing through his veins.

He really cares. He has people supporting him so powerfully. You told me about your mother and your grandmother then, and it's beautiful. And I sense what you're trying to do with your podcast is you have a little extra to give because of this support, and you're like, well, how can I spread this love to a broader community of people around the world? Does that resonate?

[06:29] Danny Miranda: 99% of people aren't given the love and support and appreciation that they need, and I was. So what does that— I'm in a very privileged position from that perspective. So what does that mean that I should do with that privilege? To me, there's only one thing to do, which is to give it away to as many people as I possibly can. And yeah, it definitely resonates and it's definitely true. And I'm grateful that you noticed that right away because that is the essence of my being.

[07:01] Paul: Where does that come from? From all your family members? I don't know.

[07:07] Danny Miranda: I don't know where it originates from, but it's a combination of having intelligence. It's a combination of having emotional intelligence. It's a combination of wanting the best for the next generation. Connection, right? It's just a feeling of peace. Like, if you go around my family, like extended family, my mom has a bunch of sisters.

No one's trying to get each other. There's no jealousy. And everyone's successful in their own right, and everyone's at peace, and everyone just wants to spread love. And yeah, it sounds ideal because it actually is. And people might be listening and be like, oh, man, I wish I had that. And I wish everyone had that too.

And so what I'm trying to say is like, let me give that to other people in the form of a podcast, in the form of presence, in the form of asking questions, in the form of let me give you love in this moment so that you can get a taste for that. And that could give you hope, inspiration to create that on your own. Because I truly believe many more people can create that for themselves than realize. And so let me be the spark. That, that gives that.

[08:10] Paul: So you grew up in New York, which is a place— and you grew up in Long Island, right? This is a place where I know other people grew up there. It's a place that cares about money. It cares about status. Did you growing up get a sense of that and like, these are things I should be wanting to aim for?

[08:33] Danny Miranda: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, education was at the top of the hierarchy, but not education like learning, like education as in what school are you going to? And what's important is where you get educated. But to me, I was very young and I rejected that notion.

[08:54] Paul: Why?

[08:55] Danny Miranda: Because I saw the power of the internet. Because I was 15 years old and interviewing NBA players. And when you realize that you can do that, you realize that the games that other people are playing are silly. And you're like, I'm going to learn here and do this so that I can get a job in an office that I don't want to be in. That didn't make any sense to me at 15, and it didn't make any sense to me today. And so my parents and my family had a bit of a conflict with that of, like, wait, education to us is really important and we view that as high status, but we love Danny.

And what my parents and what my grandparents have done is they've chosen my own pursuits over the status of society, meaning that they could easily say, well, you're not going the traditional path, so we choose society and we choose what is important to them over me, but they did the opposite. They are choosing me and their love for me greater than what society values.

[10:02] Paul: And I mean, it's one thing to support someone and love them. It's another thing to root for them. It sounds like they decided to root for you. Like, you started a time management blog when you were 13. Was that your first dance with the internet?

[10:19] Danny Miranda: With the internet? Yes, I believe so.

[10:22] Paul: But like, what were you reading before that? What were you consuming before the age of 13 that you're going to come out and write a time management blog?

[10:33] Danny Miranda: Any answer that I give you would be a lie because I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I just know it was in me to want to spread love and kindness to the broader world to the best of my abilities.

[10:44] Paul: Yeah. You wrote one article about influencing the next generation. I was like, this person is such a long-term thinker. The next generation wasn't even alive yet. And you're like, here are like 5 hacks for influencing the next generation. Do you remember any of the writing or the things you put out there at the time?

[11:04] Danny Miranda: No, I only remember the Gary Vaynerchuk post because I resurfaced it later on. And I would love to go back and resurface some of those old writings because you really sense that this is in me at a deep level. Almost like this was planted in me before I was born. I think about that destiny.

[11:24] Paul: Yeah, it resonates with my own journey. I look back and the problem was the internet wasn't mature enough when I was entering my 20s, but I was creating websites in the early 2000s, selling things on YouTube, eBay, participating in these basketball simulation leagues. And all sorts of stuff. I created a website in high school predicting the weather and like all my friends followed it. But then I just sort of like, that's not serious stuff. And to be, to be fair, like, I couldn't have made a career out of this in the early 2000s, but who knows?

But you seem to sense like, okay, there's something here. Were you meeting, were you meeting people Did people reach out to you, connect to you in those early days?

[12:14] Danny Miranda: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I remember being interviewed on a podcast when I was 13, and I only remember it because when I went back to the time machine, I noticed myself get interviewed. I'm like, wow, this is fascinating. This was a podcast before podcast.

[12:29] Paul: Is this still out there?

[12:31] Danny Miranda: I don't know if it's still out there.

[12:32] Paul: You got to find that audio.

[12:33] Danny Miranda: Yeah, it's hilarious. When you just look back on those early days, you're just like, there's something here that is so deep within me and so exciting to be able to understand that what you are doing today has had imprints in the past. To me, that's just like the most exciting thing to think about.

[12:57] Paul: So you started Nick's blog after that. What if Amari doesn't get hurt?

[13:05] Danny Miranda: I mean, honestly, I don't think he was good enough to be the forefront of an NBA championship-winning team.

[13:13] Paul: Yeah, fair. But yeah, it was cool to see that picture. There's this picture of you online. You're sitting across from Omari Stoudemire. You're in these like grown-up men mostly. And you're like this little kid just like sitting right across from Omari Stoudemire.

How did you feel in that moment?

[13:34] Danny Miranda: Like I belonged to be there.

[13:35] Paul: Yeah. Why?

[13:37] Danny Miranda: Probably because my parents and grandparents instilled in me that you can do anything. Probably because my mom took off work to drive me to the facility. Right. I just had no sense of this. I knew it was unusual, but I also knew I was capable of whatever the moment called for.

[13:58] Paul: Yeah. So you go to college, you went to Binghamton. Talk me through how you were thinking about life, maybe freshman year of college.

[14:10] Danny Miranda: It was very difficult because I was going to college because my parents valued college. And I knew if given the opportunity, I would not— if I was actually thinking about what I valued the most, I wouldn't be going to college. And so there was a lot of struggle and a lot of addictions that happened during that time where if I really boil down to what is the core of this, the core of it was that I was not following my own intuition and that I was following someone else's path. And I think we do this whenever we follow someone else's path and value it over our own. We have this feeling of, like, it manifests in ways that are addictive behaviors or self-harm. And I personally noticed that.

And those 5 years of going to Binghamton— first I went to Colgate for a year and a half, and then I went to Binghamton. And I tried to make the most of the experience, but intuitively I knew that that wasn't the right path for me to go down. So part of me just went to the behaviors that were self-harming.

[15:20] Paul: Like what?

[15:20] Danny Miranda: Like drinking, drugs, women. Just like trying to escape, escape reality. Because I knew that deep down, that wasn't the thing that was going to lead me to the place that I wanted to go. And honestly, looking back on it, I could have made the most of that experience. A lot of that is me not taking responsibility for the moment, right? I'm not going to sit here and place blame on my parents for paying for my education to take me to— it's silly for me to do that and say I was in a situation that I didn't want to be in, so therefore you go straight to hedonic adaptation.

That's not the right response to it. To me, I should have been like, I'm not in a situation I want to be in, so I should either not go to college or I should be in college and make the most of this opportunity. And looking back on it, it's because I didn't take responsibility for myself and for my circumstances that I went to those just self-harming pursuits.

[16:26] Paul: When did you start taking yourself seriously?

[16:29] Danny Miranda: 2019.

[16:31] Paul: Well, actually, it seems like you took yourself serious as a kid. You sort of lost that in college, and it seems like 2019 you found that again.

[16:42] Danny Miranda: September 9, 2019, I sent an email to my friend Tej where I confronted the circumstance of my reality and said, I'm not in a position I want to be in. I don't know why I'm not happy. I don't know why I'm not content. And I started to meditate and I did 75 Hard. And in that moment, I started to take responsibility for my situation.

[17:06] Paul: Who's Tej?

[17:07] Danny Miranda: Tej Dosa. Is an absolute legend. He's one of my best friends. Never met him at the time of this recording. And we just—

[17:15] Paul: wait, you've never met him right now?

[17:17] Danny Miranda: Correct. Right now.

[17:18] Paul: So he's like an internet friend?

[17:20] Danny Miranda: Total internet friend. We have hour-long phone calls every— honestly, more than an hour. 2, 3-hour phone calls every month. And we just vibe out and have energy and just have an amazing exchange of like, this is what I'm up to. This is what I'm up to. This is what I'm struggling with.

But it was so impactful because I did 75 Hard, and he had been an internet friend for a year at this time. But I did 75 Hard starting September 18, 2019, and I finished day 1, and I told him about it, and he was like, I'm going to do it too. Why don't we text each other at the end of every day? And that baseline of having him as accountability was so impactful to me that it helped create a new reality for myself because I didn't want to let him down for the first half of the program. And by the end of the program, I didn't want to let myself down. But that space between not letting him down and being able to take the reins myself was so impactful.

Changed my life.

[18:18] Paul: What happened after that?

[18:19] Danny Miranda: I thought I was going to be a personal trainer, but it gave me a lot more responsibility and discipline and understanding that I could say I was going to do something and actually do it. And that to me was a novel concept. That to me is why the Knicks blog didn't succeed. That to me is why the time management blog didn't succeed, because I didn't have the discipline to keep doing something when I didn't want to be doing it.

[18:40] Paul: Yeah, you wanted— it does seem like you were in a rush early in your life. Does that resonate? No.

[18:48] Danny Miranda: Why do you say that?

[18:49] Paul: Well, just your own reflections. I mean, I was reading you have this thread about a lot of the things and you were like, I quit. I quit this too early. I quit this too early. It was very clear looking back to you that you quit a number of things, like, quote unquote, too early. What do you think you were missing then?

[19:06] Danny Miranda: The discipline. I didn't have the discipline to keep doing something, and I was over-indexing on the validation from others to do the pursuit.

[19:17] Paul: Yeah, I think people underestimate how little external validation you'll get for an incredibly long time. Um, I think you experienced this with the podcast. I think it's been weird for this podcast. I've been doing this for 5 and a half years and almost nobody noticed for 3+ years. I might get a comment every 6 months, but 98% of the comments are the last 6 months now. And this is like how everything works, but we don't want it to be true.

This is why people love these, like, here are 10 hacks to launch your podcast and get crazy amount of followers and all these things. How have you developed appreciation for the discipline? For me, I don't see it as discipline as much as just trusting in my own interest and motivation over the long term.

[20:11] Danny Miranda: But are there any moments that you don't want to show up for the podcast or for writing that you do anyway? No, not one.

[20:20] Paul: I'm, I'm so, I have been so relentless in not doing things I don't like. Um, I might be a weirdo. Like, writing and podcasting are very easy for me. There's been 0% struggle for me. And when the thing is, like, I stopped doing the podcast for like 6 months, but I didn't look at it as struggling. I knew I would pick it up again.

And it was sort of like, I'm just going to let it sit for a while.

[20:54] Danny Miranda: Why?

[20:55] Paul: I think I was just going through some health issues and I was like literally just physically incapacitated and didn't have the energy for it. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't see it as discipline as much, but yeah, I imagine you're on somewhat of like autopilot now. Are these things easy to do?

[21:18] Danny Miranda: Well, sometimes.

[21:21] Paul: Yeah, right.

[21:21] Danny Miranda: Like, there were last night, it's like 11:00 at night, and I need to do the timestamps for the next episode that I'm publishing on Wednesday morning, which is when I release Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to rewatch the episode and do timestamps for it. And then I did it and I was so happy that I did it. And I think that for me personally, going and finding a place that I do things only that I like doing before, during, and after is just impossible knowing myself and knowing. So how do I do the things that I don't want to do before I do them?

And then when I'm done with them, I'm like, I'm so happy I did that. How do I find those things and how do I find the discipline to do that? That to me has been so impactful.

[22:11] Paul: So when did you start the podcast?

[22:14] Danny Miranda: September 23rd, 2020.

[22:17] Paul: 2020. Almost a year after your reflection.

[22:20] Danny Miranda: September 9th, almost exactly, is when I started going inward and building discipline to starting the podcast.

[22:28] Paul: Yeah. Talk to me about that year before the podcast. What other reflections were you going through before or after 75 Hard?

[22:39] Danny Miranda: So I did a 60-minute, 60-day meditation challenge by Naval, and I started that in, I believe, May of 2020. And by July, the podcast was starting to take form in your head. In my head, and also with the phone calls that I was doing. So I put out on Twitter, who wants to talk on the phone? And that's when I started to realize that I had some of this excess love for myself because people were feeling so happy after the calls, and I was too. And I was like, wow, there's something here.

I got to record these because this is filling me with so much joy. But what was giving me the joy? In some sense, it was going inward, right? In some sense, it was doing the meditations and becoming more clear on what I actually wanted. To want. And so the podcast was birthed from that meditation challenge, and I continued doing that meditation challenge till December of 2020.

And I think that that foundation of knowing myself has given me the direction for the thing that most people in the world will know me as, right? They'll know me for the podcast. But how did the podcast start? Podcast started because I really got in touch with myself.

[24:01] Paul: Yeah. And it sounds like you were actually curious about people. Did you start noticing, oh, I like talking to random people?

[24:07] Danny Miranda: Yes. I mean, it is such a special thing when you can ask questions to somebody, give them new perspectives, give them a hug, really, through the phone. To me, that was like, this is the greatest thing ever. I got to do this more. At the time, I thought I was going to go to school to be a psychologist and get a master's in psychology because I was like, oh, maybe I can help people with therapy. And really, that's what I'm doing.

[24:37] Paul: And so, like, my God, I'm so glad you didn't get a master's because that's too much of the regular path. No, it's not. It wouldn't have been your path. I think for some people it's great, but you would have been a fish out of water. Yeah.

[24:52] Danny Miranda: But I realized that I would be learning way more from doing the podcast than I would be learning from school, is my belief.

[25:00] Paul: And what were you doing at the time? Were you working? No.

[25:02] Danny Miranda: So I was just at home and living at my parents' house. And at first I was becoming a personal trainer, and then I was just like, I just need to take this COVID time and just go inward and figure out myself. And I'm blessed to have, you know, parents that would put food on the table for me and, and to put a roof over my head and like such a blessing.

[25:25] Paul: Yeah. Was there pressure on you to get a job after you graduated or was it slightly released because of COVID also?

[25:33] Danny Miranda: So I graduated in 2018 and I started— I was like, I don't want to work for anyone. I want to build my own thing. And so I started going into dropshipping and because I was looking on Twitter and being like, what's going on here? How can I make money? How can I build something for myself? And so I went into this world of marketing and dropshipping, and I made a bunch of money doing that.

And that to me was like, this is not fulfilling. Why isn't this fueling my soul? I'm helping people sell keychains that are like anniversary keychains and for special occasions, but it didn't fill the sense of my purpose. On this floating rock in space.

[26:12] Paul: Yeah, it's an analytical game. This is the problem with many things. It's like dropshipping and FBA and all that world. Like, it works. Yes. But the problem is you have to wake up tomorrow and do it again.

Yes.

[26:25] Danny Miranda: And if your game— for some people's game, it's like making money.

[26:28] Paul: Yeah.

[26:29] Danny Miranda: Is the thing that like fuels them and gives them joy. And, and I realized that wasn't me.

[26:33] Paul: So you're like, what's the opposite of making money? Let's start a podcast.

[26:40] Danny Miranda: It's so true. I mean, for me, I was just like, making money isn't the game that I want to be proficient at. Let me play a game that I actually enjoy playing. Yeah. And let me figure that out. I thought it would be personal training.

I thought it might be therapy or being a therapist. Right. And I figure out it's the podcast. And I think having that space of, like, you don't have to have life figured out as soon as you graduate college and don't have a path. Was helpful for me to internalize.

[27:09] Paul: Do you have any podcast role models?

[27:12] Danny Miranda: Many, of course. Are you kidding?

[27:14] Paul: Like, who were the ones at the beginning? I imagine Tim Ferriss is a big influence. He's a huge influence on me. Drink, drink break. You can keep this in. I love that.

[27:27] Danny Miranda: Yeah, Tim Ferriss was huge for me. I remember listening to my first podcast with my friend Zach Stempler on our drive to Maine and was part of my take actually in 2016. And I was just like, this is amazing. Their energy together, Big Cat and PFT, and just was like, this is amazing and enjoyed it so much. And then I got into Tim Ferriss and I remember listening to John Lee Dumas back in 2014, 2015.

[27:57] Paul: So maybe Is that Entrepreneurs on Fire?

[27:59] Danny Miranda: Entrepreneurs on Fire. So, but just like in those early days of like, what is a podcast? Why is this cool? Why is this interesting? And then Rogan, I remember this was a good tell and this might be helpful for some people listening is like when I was dropshipping and didn't want to do the work and procrastinated doing the work, I would watch Joe Rogan. And I think that if you are not in a path that you are enjoying, look at where you're procrastinating.

There might be some spark of your future in that procrastination because that is where you're drawn to when you're saying there's no time. For you, you were working your corporate job and then you would procrastinate doing the work. And what'd you do in that time?

[28:47] Paul: Oh, it's so obvious now.

[28:49] Danny Miranda: Yes.

[28:49] Paul: Like I was writing on Quora.

[28:53] Danny Miranda: It's like you could so clearly point— where are you procrastinating? I think people really need to think about that if they're listening to this podcast. It's like you might be procrastinating by listening to this podcast. Okay, there is something there for you in your future if you actually listen to that call.

[29:10] Paul: Yeah. My last few years in work, I would skip work and read books in the park. I would be writing on the internet in the mornings before I started work. And yeah, very clear now.

[29:24] Danny Miranda: And that's why I encourage people to go inward so much and really meditate or just go out on walks alone and really think about their life or journal, whatever it is for you that's going inward. If you do that consistently, you will find the places in your life you are procrastinating, quote unquote, and realize that actually might be your sole purpose or reason why you're here. Yeah.

[29:45] Paul: And I'm sort of jealous of you because you don't have the 10 years of baggage I had to unlearn from the corporate world. You're just going straight into it. There's such like a pure energy and like you don't have all these hangups you have to unlearn and all these things. How do you think about this is sort of like we have this concept of the real world, right? It's basically like after college, you're 22, you're entering the quote unquote real world, but you're just sort of like going into your interests right away. Like, how does that feel?

Do you see people that like me and older people and to have these like corporate experiences and other experiences? Like, how do you see yourself compared to people like that?

[30:30] Danny Miranda: I did my 10 years too.

[30:31] Paul: Yeah, that's true. You started at 13. My 10 years were running the Knicks beat, right?

[30:37] Danny Miranda: From 16 when I stopped the Knicks blog to 24 when I first started going inward. That was my years doing the traditional path of what other people valued. So I spent 8 years doing that as well and realizing that, oh, this actually isn't the path for me. So how I look at you or anyone who's done that corporate world is just like, I did it too, in my own way.

[31:01] Paul: Yeah, I guess in that sense, I spent much longer than 10 years on the default path. So much to unlearn. Talk to me about the first year of podcasting. You're mostly doing— you're only doing audio, I think. What was keeping you going?

[31:20] Danny Miranda: I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. And I just felt like there were enough moments that I was giving to other people that I was helping them in some way. And I would get enough comments randomly from people being like, oh, this was different, or, oh, you're going to be a big podcaster someday. Or people would just throw these out. And I'm like, all right, there's something here.

If I'm getting joy from the conversation itself and also people are recognizing some talent in me or feeling better about themselves from having the conversation, why wouldn't I continue doing this?

[31:57] Paul: What did they see?

[31:59] Danny Miranda: I don't know. I mean, probably just caring, right? Like, actually giving a shit about the people I was talking to. Actually researching them, presence, really being with them. And for the first 227 episodes, these are all virtual conversations. And then it's like, I did it in person with Noah Kagan for episode 228, and I'm like, oh my God, the level of connection you could get with somebody is so much deeper, obviously.

But it was because it was COVID. I was like, so it really wasn't. It was like the thought of I could get good at this and I enjoy doing this and someone else is enjoying this experience as well. So why not just keep doing it?

[32:41] Paul: Yeah. How do you like— what led you to identify people early on? You were literally the first. I've had many podcasts which grasped onto this idea of The Pathless Path. You were the first person that identified what I was writing about. And did an interview with me.

Like, I feel like you're, you're more than a podcast. You're sort of a talent scout.

[33:09] Danny Miranda: Yes. And that's an innate gift that I— when I'm 13 years old and watching Wine Library TV as a 13-year-old in 2009 and writing about Gary Vaynerchuk—

[33:20] Paul: this is before he did all his other stuff, before everything else. So you discovered Gary Vee.

[33:26] Danny Miranda: I didn't discover him. No, but I did have a sense for this guy is going to be somebody.

[33:33] Paul: Yeah. What do you see? Is it you see things that you aspire to be, you think?

[33:39] Danny Miranda: Or when you're looking at life with the lens of love and you're looking for people who are acting with discipline and love, That's really what it is. It's people who are doing a thing for an internal game and also people who are continuing to do it over and over again when seemingly, quote unquote, the rewards aren't there. And that shows that they're playing a deeper game. And then you also look at who is connected to who and why and what's going on. So if someone was looking at the landscape, it's like, okay, Paul's connected to Danny. Why is Paul connected to Danny?

What is going on there? Why are they drawn to each other? And so you start playing this game with other people and you see who people associate with and you see who the players you respect are and you see who they respect and you ask, why does that person respect that person? And so how did I stumble across Gary Vee? Probably because someone I respected looked at Gary Vee as somebody to look at. And so then you explore Gary Vee and you're like, is he acting with discipline?

Is he acting with love? What is he doing this for? What are his motivations? How is he showing up? So I guess all that is happening in the background while I'm looking and identifying someone.

[34:59] Paul: Yeah, I think this is something that people do not appreciate enough with sort of the online game. Everything you're doing is communicating your own principles.

[35:15] Danny Miranda: Yes.

[35:16] Paul: And so I think if I'm bringing someone on The Pathless Path, they're going to think, oh, well, this is probably somebody that's super deep, probably spends a lot of time thinking and reading, talking to people. And that is something I care deeply about. And It's like when I see someone on your podcast, you explore such a wide range of people outside of my comfort zone. Some people that I might dismiss as like, oh, that's just like a hustle energy. But then they go on your podcast and be like, there must be something deeper there. Like, because Danny's pretty thoughtful and it can change my perspective of someone.

Because I've learned to trust you. And I think it kind of ties back. Like when I first started seeing you share ideas on the internet, you were communicating in a language that was very Gary Vee hustly, and that is not my preferred language. I'm not fluent in hustle or grind, but you have taught me that I should not dismiss people that are communicating like this. I sort of, and this is a perfect example. I shared this tweet of just because somebody's communicating in hustle, like, a lot of people are just not aware that they're actually playing a deeper game.

They just haven't read enough literature and poetry. And then your reply was like, where do I start?

[36:49] Danny Miranda: Yeah, man, it's true. And I appreciate that compliment so much because you can be playing a hustle game and you could be playing a money game and actually be having something deeper going on. Right. And I think that the first inclination for a lot of people who are looking for peace is to say, if you are playing a hustle game, you are therefore not playing a peace game. But for some people, playing the money game is peaceful.

[37:19] Paul: Yeah, it's true. Yeah, I think. And what I've learned is I, I was in a world where the only modes of winning were money and status and progression in a career. And I hated that. I didn't like who I became. So I became very turned off by that world because I became scared of a version of myself I didn't want to become.

But I also do think like this, this whole hustle language is just so pervasive. Like, I think we we struggle sometimes, especially in the US, to really communicate what's going on. And this is something I'm trying to expand is like, let's talk about these deeper games with like a broader language. And but it's so hard to communicate. Like, we had this conversation once around like being on like a true path. What does that mean to you?

[38:15] Danny Miranda: To me, it means that I have this belief that I was put here before birth to follow some path or to play out some karma. And for me, when you say you're following a true path, to me, that feels like you are doing the thing that you were put on this earth to do. What does it mean for you?

[38:38] Paul: I think for me, it's a state. It's about being connected. And being honest, not deluding myself into thinking I want things that I don't want. Right. It's sitting down to write and being like, okay, did I enjoy that hour? Would I have skipped it if I could have just gotten to the finish line without having to do the work?

And it's like, no, I wouldn't have. So I cherish that time. And that's true. What do people What's your response when people are like, what's your goal? What's, what's the next step? What are things like these?

Do these translate to how you're thinking about your path now? Hey there, it's Paul, and thanks for listening to The Pathless Path podcast. I wanted to take a quick break to ask you a small favor. I'm really loving doing this show, and for the first time have the support to help me take it to the next level. Unfortunately, it's still pretty hard to spread the word on podcasts But that's where you can help me out. If you enjoy these episodes, I'd really appreciate it if you could leave a review on Apple or Spotify or simply share the episode on social media or with some friends.

Finally, if you're enjoying this conversation, you'd probably like my book too. It's been read by thousands from around the world, and each week I get notes saying how much the book helped people on their paths. You can grab the audiobook read by me or other versions in the link in the show notes below. Let's get back to the show.

[40:12] Danny Miranda: So when people say like, what's your goal? I tell them like to sell out Madison Square Garden.

[40:16] Paul: Yeah. And that, that is interesting to me because it's not obvious.

[40:22] Danny Miranda: What do you mean?

[40:23] Paul: Like if you replied with 50,000 downloads a month, I don't know why my instant response to that is like, oh, it's kind of like, I don't know. I feel like, I feel like there's more to life. Like selling out Madison Square Garden is not something anyone says. And it's sort of like long-term enough that you're not really caught up in like, okay, I need to do this in 3 months. It's like you can actually still be present in the moment with that goal.

[40:55] Danny Miranda: Yes.

[40:58] Paul: While having that goal off in the future. Yeah.

[41:02] Danny Miranda: I mean, to me, it's just about— I think the thing you're hitting on when you're talking about the writing is like, would I play this game even if no one knew that I was playing? And to me, selling out Madison Square Garden is a representation of that. It's like, I want to do that for myself because it is a cool way to bookend starting a Knicks blog to then going to the place where the Knicks play and then having— being the, the reason why people come when I was the one who was taking the train to see the Knicks as a high school kid. And so I think life for me is, and the true path for me is about playing the games that only you could play, or the games that are so inherent to you that it's like, that is a human being who is doing something for themselves on their own journey, on their own mission, on their own path.

That's a true path a lot of the times because they're not doing it because they think it's cool or other people will applaud them. Like, to me, I'm doing it because it is really what my heart needs to express for myself.

[42:15] Paul: Yeah. And it seems like you're detached from that goal. Like, if you don't sell out Madison Square Garden, I feel like you'll still see your life as a success.

[42:24] Danny Miranda: 1000%. It's not about that. It's about trying to achieve that because it's a fun thing to shoot for because it makes life more fun.

[42:33] Paul: Do you have any short-term goals?

[42:35] Danny Miranda: Continue having the best conversations I possibly can.

[42:38] Paul: It's keep playing the game. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And but people get confused by that. Do you get people that are like, well, what do you mean?

Like, do you have any like short, like short-term goals? And people don't ask you that?

[42:54] Danny Miranda: No, I know people don't usually ask me short-term goals.

[42:56] Paul: And I guess we're in a nice bubble of like a lot of people who like don't know what they're doing.

[43:05] Danny Miranda: No, but, but the thing is, I do feel like I know what I'm doing.

[43:08] Paul: Yeah. What I mean is like the kind of work we do, we don't know what the world or the landscape or the, the quote unquote game will look like 2 or 5 years from now.

[43:20] Danny Miranda: Yes.

[43:22] Paul: All we know is that we want to keep playing the game and like, don't want to get kicked out and don't like— I do not want to go back and get a job. I think I've created enough of awareness around that, that I think my friends would come kidnap me if I was about to accept the job. Yeah.

[43:41] Danny Miranda: Because at some point, and I think that's important for people, is like, what's the point in which you can't not go back or you have to keep playing the game, like where it becomes unreasonable for you to go back to the old way and finding that point, I feel like is so important for people. Because it's like, all right, once I'm trying to figure out when was that for me, but when was that for you? The point in which you're like, all right, this is too good for me to ever do something like I was doing in the past again.

[44:14] Paul: Yeah, it was December 2017 for me. I had made money freelancing and had enough space in my life that I was like, oh my God, I could never live another way. And my way to celebrate was to stop working for money. For a few months. And just, that's when I started my podcast and started my blog and just started writing. And I liked how I was living for the first time in years.

And that was— it took me years to understand what was going on.

[44:45] Danny Miranda: And so how long had you been—

[44:48] Paul: this is the problem with interviewing a podcaster.

[44:52] Danny Miranda: Well, how long had you been been working for yourself at that point. When did you quit your job?

[44:59] Paul: Uh, May 2017.

[45:02] Danny Miranda: So within 6 months or 3 months?

[45:06] Paul: Yeah, about 6, 7 months.

[45:07] Danny Miranda: Yeah, within 7 months. You're right.

[45:09] Paul: So obvious.

[45:09] Danny Miranda: I could never go back. And how long had you been thinking about that decision?

[45:14] Paul: About quitting?

[45:15] Danny Miranda: Yeah.

[45:15] Paul: Not long. This is the weird thing. Um, I I just didn't have an imagination of other possible lives. Like, I had no conception of, like, being a digital nomad or a creator. My only idea was, like, I'll just figure it out in freelance. I just hate my current path so much.

I need to figure something else out. So I was sort of just running away from a life I just didn't want to keep playing. But yeah, it was something I knew in my heart that I couldn't go back, but I wasn't saying out loud loudly for years. I was very timid to say what I thought, and it was just hard.

[45:59] Danny Miranda: Where does that come from?

[46:03] Paul: I think I grew up in a family where a lot of people succeeded on the traditional path and saw me walking away from a path where I was very successful. And I think it just didn't fit with a lot of people's story of how life worked. And I felt ashamed. I felt like I was letting people down. I felt like I knew people thought I was wasting time with my life. And yeah, I just stayed small.

I eventually ran away to Asia, but played it safe with my writing until I wrote my book and I knew I couldn't hide anymore.

[46:45] Danny Miranda: And that was 3 years later. At least.

[46:48] Paul: Took a long time. Yeah.

[46:49] Danny Miranda: For, for you to be comfortable in owning what you actually believed in, what you were doing.

[46:55] Paul: Yeah. 2 to 3 years. 2 years it started flipping for me and then 3 years. Yeah. Like as soon as I started writing my book, I was like, oh, We got to let it rip, baby.

[47:10] Danny Miranda: And that falls in line with once you are able to own your desires, you're able to dream bigger, which makes the game more fun.

[47:18] Paul: Yeah. So you said you knew when that moment was for you.

[47:22] Danny Miranda: The moment in which I couldn't go back was probably—

[47:26] Paul: go back to what? Right.

[47:28] Danny Miranda: Like, go back to the traditional path, I guess, or get a job. Was interviewing Gary Vaynerchuk, episode 39 of the podcast. I'm like, if I could do this in 72 days, come on, what can I do? You know that P. Diddy clip that you probably don't resonate with of him flipping the table over and just him saying, what's next? Tell me something I can't do.

I felt that in my bones of this energy of I could do anything I set my mind to.

[47:58] Paul: Yeah. What do you think Gary sees in you? Because I know he's been very proactive in supporting you, and he hasn't had to. Like, you haven't sought it out sometimes, and he's gone out of his way to really root for you. Yeah.

[48:13] Danny Miranda: I think he has deep love for himself, and he sees somebody who identified the love and loved him. And because at such a young age, I think he respects talent scouts. He respects people who could see talent, and he thinks of himself as talented, and I do too. And he's like, if this kid could see that at 13, that's really impressive. And so I think that's probably what it is.

[48:46] Paul: Yeah, I think Gary is such an interesting person because he's incredibly honest, about what he cares about and what he wants and how he's going to do it. And I think most of the criticism of him is really just the followers he attracts sometimes who are playing a more surface-level game. Um, but I think this is something that has changed, which is that people went from working jobs behind where we don't actually see what's happening, what people are doing, they're living lives behind closed doors, to people are living lives more in public now. And if we observed the behavior of young knowledge workers like myself at 23, we'd be like, that's such a lame game they're playing. It looks so silly. They're communicating with such immature language.

But when people are entering these creator games and communicating, they're trying stuff out in public, and it can be incredibly embarrassing. But I think the upshot of this is that people learn much quicker. And like, I think watching your journey, like, you've just learned at such an accelerated pace because you're getting influence from people, you're getting feedback from people, you see people say things and you're like, oh, maybe that's interesting, I should lean into that. What are some of the pieces of feedback or sort of role models you've picked up along the way that have sort of inspired you to learn and kind of like really trust yourself?

[50:18] Danny Miranda: I've always trusted myself. But the learning piece of it, and Pom said this recently too, and he's somebody who I'm really inspired by for his rate of learning. But he mentioned me in that my rate of learning is something that is exciting or that it helps my trajectory. And I guess I never considered that. I just figured I love doing the work and I'm going to continue doing the work without really thinking about, like, all right, if I learn this quickly, great things will happen. I never framed it in that context.

[50:57] Paul: Yeah. You interviewed me in 2021. I remember listening to one of your podcasts a year later and it was like, holy crap, he got so much better at interviewing.

[51:06] Danny Miranda: What was it?

[51:08] Paul: I don't know. I think it was just— think this is like you're on a path that, which is the path you actually want to be on. And I think learning flows downstream from that, right? A couple of people have said this to me recently about my podcast, and I think my reaction is similar. I don't, I don't know what's happening. I can't explain it.

Somebody said, you've gotten to be such a good interviewer. I'm like, really? I don't know. I just keep doing the podcast. It's like This is easy for me. This flows.

I like this. I can do this. But I think this will be like 148 episodes. So I think it's just a numbers game. The more you do of something you actually like, the inevitable outcome is that you'll get better at it.

[51:54] Danny Miranda: Yeah, you are really good at it. And I listened to the Alex Hardy episode. I'm like, oh, wow. You were able to get things out of him in such a amazing way. And the conversation flowed so well that I was like, damn, Paul has got something here. And so, yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

If you enjoy playing a game and you do a lot of that game, you're inevitably going to get better. And so I had that understanding when I was doing episode 140, whatever it was, when I interviewed you. And I had that understanding when I started. Is like, if you do it a lot, you will get better. There's no other way for anything to happen. And I learned that from meditation.

I learned that from doing 75 Hard. I learned that from lifting weights. And it's just like, you learn that lesson once and you can apply it over and over and over again.

[52:45] Paul: You got distracted from podcasting. You dropped out of the game for a bit and you took a job. Talk to me about that.

[52:54] Danny Miranda: But I mean, the job was me podcasting. Yeah, but it wasn't the same game, which is an important distinction. I think you noted there, which is like, I took this job for— because I thought that it would make my dad happy.

[53:09] Paul: 2021.

[53:10] Danny Miranda: 2021. And he was happy. And I thought it was combining my passions of like, all right, I'm doing NFTs, I love NFTs, and now I love podcasting too. Combine them. This is going to be amazing. This is still playing the same game.

But then I quickly realized, like, oh no, this is different, and I can't do my podcast and also this job at the same time. And oh man, this sucks. And now I have to let these people down. And so, yeah, I stopped playing the podcast, and it really hurt my psyche, and it really hurt. Like, I was depressed about it, about the whole thing, about going down the wrong path.

[53:50] Paul: And around that time, it's like 3 months.

[53:53] Danny Miranda: Yeah, it was like 3 months. It was like 3 to 6 months. But it was like I spent 10 years, but it felt that way because of how I lived my life. And around that time, I stopped meditating as often. And I think that's closely related to going down the wrong path for me personally, is meditation. If I'm not meditating, I will get led down a place that I don't like going and that is putting other people's desires above my own.

That's what has happened time and time again.

[54:21] Paul: Is that when you went to the cabin?

[54:23] Danny Miranda: The cabin was August of 2020. And so that was right before starting the podcast. I'm going back to the same cabin in the same week, 3 years later. Wow. And I'm so excited just to see what new realizations I have or how that experience impacted. I'm so excited.

And interestingly enough, like, just a side tangent, that cabin is in the same city as one of my close friends who I don't want to mention his name because I don't want to dox where he lives or whatever. But I'm just like, how crazy is that? From the podcast. I did the podcast and he turned out to be one of my close friends and it was in the same town. That's in a little town you would never know.

[55:04] Paul: That's amazing. Yeah, this is fascinating. I'm actually going back to Taiwan this summer. And it feels— well, I was— I've been back there. I've been on and off living in Taiwan, but we haven't been back. I'm going back with a daughter who's half Taiwanese, and it'll be 5 years after I moved there.

And that's really when everything opened up for me. And it's such a special experience. So I know exactly what you're talking about. It's these rituals and— so, like, these rituals are so important. I was talking with our mutual friend Sky King, and he planted the seed of leisure as celebration. Love that.

Because I struggle to celebrate myself, mostly because I'm just like, I don't care that much about my outcomes. But what enables me to celebrate is just like reflective time. Like, taking a long walk is just freaking beautiful for me where I can reflect on things, see, see what's happening in my life, check in with myself. And that's a beautiful way to reflect. Does that resonate with you in terms of like this time of disconnecting?

[56:19] Danny Miranda: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's like I also think there's something beautiful about going to the same place that helps spark the ideas and with a new lens or with the additional time that you've— so Taiwan to you helped create some change, and now you've actually changed. And now you get to look at that same place that helped spark those ideas with a new lens that you've created from being there. It's like a beautiful full circle. And I think full circle moments make life so much more magical. And yeah, that's what going to the cabin is for me.

It's just like a full circle of, like, look what this cabin has helped me create.

[57:02] Paul: So tell people what happened when you went there in 2020.

[57:07] Danny Miranda: So in 2020, I was doing the meditation every day, and I was like, I was doing 60 minutes, and I was like, I know I can go deeper on myself. I know I can fully disconnect, and I know there's going to be something that comes out of that. And so I brought a bunch of old journals, and I brought a bunch of books that I wanted to read. And I did nothing, quote unquote, nothing, right? I went on long walks. I had no time with my phone or no time with laptop for 5 days straight.

And the first 2 days, I was just like, waiting for notifications and all these things to pop up that I was used to, text messages. And on the 3rd day, I really got still and I really sat with the nothingness, and it really felt good to have nothing come in. And I was like, wow, this is magical. This is amazing. By the 4th day, I had such a clear direction of where I wanted to go and where I wanted to take my life. And I knew that the life that I wanted to live was just a result of me taking certain actions.

And by the 5th day of me leaving, I was so optimistic because I was like, oh my God, I know exactly what I need to do and I'm going to do it. A lot of times people are operating with this feeling of like, I know I should be doing X, Y, Z, but now I had this clear direction and purpose and that was starting the podcast. And I had names of 100 people that I would, I'd be like, I'm going to reach out to Gary Vee. I'm going to reach out to Annie Fursella. I'm going to reach out. And I had all these people and I one by one by one reached out to them.

A lot of people ignored me and a lot of people I've had on since them ignoring me, but I just had a direction. And I knew exactly the step I needed to take. And so that's what the trip gave me to the 5 days in the woods of doing, quote unquote, nothing.

[58:52] Paul: That's so beautiful. How do you think big? Like, teach me. And for context, I now play Danny Miranda mode in my head when I'm like, how do I generate bigger and grander goals? We had a conversation a few months ago.

[59:11] Danny Miranda: Episode 314?

[59:13] Paul: No, no, no. This was at, uh, Poké Plus. And you're like, your book's gonna sell a million books.

[59:20] Danny Miranda: A million copies.

[59:21] Paul: And it made me so uncomfortable, uh, when you said that. And then I got curious. I'm like, how does Danny think like this? And I— it's even more interesting because I think people naturally come up with goals in the US, especially doing the kind of work I'm doing. But I realized I don't really generate these because I just like what I'm doing most days. I had another conversation with Billy Oppenheimer, and he's like me.

He doesn't generate these huge goals. So how, how do you think like this? Like, is this always been how you've thought?

[59:59] Danny Miranda: Yeah, it is always part of how I've thought. But I think it's because I just have a deep love for the things that I do often, and I get so excited by them, and I extrapolate to— I know a couple of things. I know, one, the internet compounds in a way that we really can't understand. And two, it's like, why wouldn't you have the most fun that you possibly could? It requires more pressure. You're speaking to 19,763 people live.

That's a lot more pressure than even speaking to 19,763 people virtually.

[01:00:37] Paul: But it's like you're talking about Madison Square Garden.

[01:00:39] Danny Miranda: Yes, that is the attendance and the capacity for Madison Square Garden. But to me, it's just like, why would you not have more fun on this floating rock in space? And to me, thinking big is having more fun.

[01:00:53] Paul: I love that. How should I think bigger for this podcast?

[01:00:58] Danny Miranda: Well, it's like, what is the most fun that you could imagine yourself having while doing this?

[01:01:05] Paul: Well, I think that's the interesting thing for me, because, like, this is like— every episode is so fun. Like, I'm enjoying it so much. I struggle with developing outcomes. Like, I picked up this idea from Justin Welsh, which I think he might have mentioned on your podcast. Shiny outcome syndrome. I think I might have, like, outcome rejection syndrome where I'm, like, so skeptical of any outcome or legible goal that, like, I just don't even think about them at all.

[01:01:32] Danny Miranda: Well, it goes to the fact that a lot of people choose outcomes because other people think they're amazing. But I'm choosing the outcome of Madison Square Garden because I think it's amazing. And so I think I got it from GaryVee with buying the Jets. Is like an outcome that is so specific to him that he doesn't necessarily need to achieve, but that the pursuit of will be fun to aim at. And so the question for you is, how do I find a goal or something so audacious that is so inherent to me based on my own life experience and trajectory that I can aim for but not feel attached to if I don't hit it, that will still be fun if I'm in the process of achieving it. So I think that's really how you do it.

[01:02:19] Paul: Can I just outsource this to you and you be my goal Sherpa?

[01:02:24] Danny Miranda: I've never been called the goal Sherpa. That's hilarious. No, I think for you, you have to analyze the things you were doing as a child that that were fun for you and that how could you play those at bigger and bigger levels? So for you, I know you love DJing, right? And that's like one of your pet pursuits of like, this is just fun for me. So the question becomes, what is something from your childhood that you did or a place you went to or a place where you got the love for DJing and how could you experience that yourself for yourself?

Right? Like, for me, it was like, I love going to the Knicks games. All right, so how do I put myself in the position of being a Knicks player when I'm not good enough to be good at basketball? Oh, well, I could take something that I love, which is doing the podcast, and put it in my childhood to make my childhood self happy.

[01:03:29] Paul: I guess I could just make it to Boston Garden.

[01:03:32] Danny Miranda: You could, right? Like, imagine Paul Millerd DJing the Boston Garden.

[01:03:36] Paul: Yeah, maybe it doesn't hit for you. Yeah, it doesn't hit for me. No, I love this generation process. You're so good at it.

[01:03:43] Danny Miranda: Thank you. I've never had to explain it to people. And thank you for giving me the space to think about it, because it just does come inherent to me.

[01:03:52] Paul: How have you thought about the business of podcasting? I know you were able to make some money from that part-time job you made. But you're not like secretly rich, which I think is cooler. There are people that either have a spouse that is making money and supporting them. You're just doing this. You're betting on yourself.

Like, how are you paying for all the studio time? I know you're beg, borrowing, and stealing sometimes, but yeah. What's the like business side of it look like for you?

[01:04:23] Danny Miranda: So I've had a lot of trust in the universe when going down this path. And how that has manifested has been so many different unexpected ways that I possibly couldn't have created before doing the podcast. So there was one moment in the podcast history where I was really deep on doing clips, and I was putting out a bunch of clips. Clips being vertical. Most people who listen to this will know what a clip— short form, less than 60 seconds. They'll know what a clip is.

And so at some point I had a clip agency and I was doing clips for people. Then I was like, this isn't fun. So I stopped doing that. And so I made some money doing that. And then I was like, all right, what else? And then this opportunity comes to me where I'm consulting for people and helping them start their own podcast.

And I'm like, I could have never predicted this. And now I'm helping people get guests and interviewing. And when they're interviewing, able to look at their videotape and consult on it and figure out what's the best way to do this conversation. And it's just like, now I'm doing a course. And so I don't know, I've had a lot of trust in, like, all right, what is the next path and how am I following my own heart in what is fun for me?

[01:05:40] Paul: Do you get stressed about the money side of it?

[01:05:42] Danny Miranda: No, I just feel like everything will work out how it is supposed to.

[01:05:47] Paul: Yeah. Do you know, like, how much you're living on now? Like, how much your life costs now?

[01:05:52] Danny Miranda: No, I have no idea the numbers. I should be better. This is where I need your help consulting.

[01:05:58] Paul: You're not like— are you— you're not like in debt though? No, I'm not.

[01:06:02] Danny Miranda: I'm not in debt. Everything just works out. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And I don't have a lot of sense for the numbers, and I wish I had more of that analytical mind, and I wish I I got better at that. And I do want to get better at that as I think about having a family one day or caring for other people.

That's a part of life that I feel like I could get a lot better at. But I have a lot of trust in the universe, in the world working out as it is supposed to.

[01:06:32] Paul: How have you been able to deepen your trust for the universe?

[01:06:36] Danny Miranda: I read this book called The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer. And A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. This idea that 13 billion years got us to this moment right now. It's like a real deep concept. Like, 13 billion years got us to right now. How could it not be perfect?

And if you actually believe that, it's like, for me, it's very freeing, and it's very much like, this is exactly what is supposed to happen. At the right time. And that plays into podcasting too. It's like you're having a conversation, someone says something offhand, and then you pick up on it, and then you have a great conversation on that offhand comment just because you were able to trust the moment. And so I think when people say, like, Paul, you've gotten so good at interviewing, what they're really saying is, like, Paul, you're getting really good at trusting the moment. You're getting really good at being one with whatever happening and being okay with it.

And so for me, it was reading the books. It was meditation. Meditation was also a huge part of it, of like, you don't know, you can't choose your next thought, but it's coming up. So what is going on there? And yeah, A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer. I mean, this guy started meditating in the woods and he ended up running WebMD.

And it's like he was meditating in the woods the entire time and just had faith and surrender. To whatever was going to come next. It's like there's something there. I don't know what, but there's something there. So why don't you live that yourself?

[01:08:04] Paul: What do you think comes next for you 20 years from now?

[01:08:08] Danny Miranda: 20 years from now, bro? Oh my God.

[01:08:10] Paul: Do you think on those time scales?

[01:08:12] Danny Miranda: I mean, I really hope that I've had sold out Madison Square Garden at that point because I want my—

[01:08:17] Paul: I think that's more likely than them making the finals.

[01:08:24] Danny Miranda: Dude, 3-1 for the Celtics right now. We'll see what comes out in 20 years. Looking back, you're like, should I have faith in the Celtics again?

[01:08:32] Paul: Is what you're telling me. Fine, they'll be fine. Great, great franchise, great owners.

[01:08:36] Danny Miranda: It really does come from the top, right? It's crazy how— but 20 years from now, dude, it's like whatever I am imagining is so like I have a feeling that whatever I will imagine, it will eclipse what I am imagining because it is a true path. And so anything that I say, it's just like there's so many variables to that. But I'm excited to find out, and I'm excited to try to live with as much love and discipline and kindness as I possibly can for the moment and be as present as possible for the whole thing.

[01:09:15] Paul: One thing I don't hear often with people your age is how excited they are to become fathers one day. Yeah, that seems like a really important thing for you in the future.

[01:09:26] Danny Miranda: Definitely. I think I'm, I'm creating the podcast that my grandparents, my grandchildren will appreciate and will give them guidance. And I think that people don't realize what opportunity they have with the internet. Of teaching the next generation, right? Of teaching your—

[01:09:48] Paul: this goes back. This is your article when you were 13. You were like, tips to influence the next generation.

[01:09:54] Danny Miranda: Yes. And so I think I inherently realized at a young age the impact that putting something on this digital archive will have. And I saw that. And so this is me acting on what I saw at a young age. I'm excited to be a parent because it's like you get to influence someone's behavior and give someone the love. Like, people feel loved when I talk to them for an hour on the podcast.

Imagine being with me 24/7 and helping guide some of your decisions and giving you love in that moment. It's like, that's a whole new level of love. And I know the ways in which I've been parented so well, and my grandparents are incredible. So it's like, if I can do that for a kid myself, with all the lessons that I've learned through meditation and the podcast and learnings, it's like I'm so excited to give that gift to somebody, to a lot of people, hopefully, or at least 3 or 4.

[01:10:49] Paul: It's awesome. I'm 3 months in. I highly recommend it. What are some uncomfortable edges for you that you're exploring right now?

[01:11:00] Danny Miranda: Masculinity and femininity. Is a huge one that I don't know I would have had enough comfort with myself or knowing of myself to explore, uh, when I started the podcast. But it is an uncomfortable place for me to go because I think that it's a topic that isn't being discussed that I think is really important that more people discuss in, uh, culture and society. So that's the uncomfortable edge that I'm tiptoeing on right now.

[01:11:31] Paul: Yeah. What about how does that apply to you? Like, what makes you uncomfortable about that?

[01:11:39] Danny Miranda: I'm not sure. I don't know what makes me uncomfortable by that. I think maybe that it's a conversation that's just not being discussed in a way of kindness and love and discipline. Like, I don't think it's being discussed in the context that I want it to. So it makes me uncomfortable if, like, Oh, am I going to be the one that takes us there in some sense?

[01:12:00] Paul: Yeah, I sense there's this sort of— I think it's kind of fake, which is like, men are terrible. Or there's sort of a backlash to that, which is like, men are treated poorly in society. And I was thinking about this and just like the people I know, it's never been easier to find other optimistic, and supportive and caring and like emotionally aware men. I think— I don't think our parents had this privilege. No. Um, especially our fathers.

Like, it just— there wasn't cultural permission to be that. And I think this is like something I have really grown to appreciate about the US is like how open it is. And it's very comfortable to be a guy like sharing emotions and being open and being supportive. And I've been lucky, especially in this creator world, to meet people that are so earnest and supportive.

[01:13:00] Danny Miranda: Yeah. I mean, Tucker Max is sitting in your chair and he's saying basically, like, 20 years ago, if you're at a bar talking the way you are to me, that would be so weird, right? And he's like, I accept what you're saying now and think it's cool. And it's just like, that shows the progression of where we've gone from, from 2003 to 2023 when it comes to, quote unquote, being a man and how that relates to feelings and our own level of comfort with self. And it's like, a huge part of that is the internet. A huge part of that is more perspectives and more opinions.

A deeper understanding of the truth of how someone should raise a child today versus 2003?

[01:13:49] Paul: Yeah, I think this is a totally underappreciated part of the internet is there's more optimistic people to follow, but there's this mass— mass media will focus on the negative because that's going to drive more clicks. But the long tail of like interesting, supportive, optimistic, positive weirdos is like incredible. And the funny thing, like Tucker Max, everyone, every guy I knew read his stuff. Every woman I knew read his stuff when I was in college, '03 to '07. And yeah, it's sort of like an arc for our generation because a lot of people in my generation, elder millennials, we grew up in this time where we were still sort of acting out the previous generation's behaviors, which was like dunking on guy friends, making fun of each other. Like being assholes, and it never felt good for people.

And I think a lot of people have been very happy to, like, let go of that.

[01:14:49] Danny Miranda: Yes. And I think that's why it was so important for me to have Tucker on the podcast, was because he's a representation of the arc almost of American society in that time and in some ways. And it's like, we need to get to a place of deeper love and compassion. And it's like we've made great strides. And I think there's another level of understanding. It has to be cooler to be kind to one another and to put each other up while also having the discipline to hold our friends to higher standards for themselves.

There's like a very important nuance that I think we are moving towards of like, yes, you can have love, you can have compassion for your fellow friend, but you can also hold them to a high standard. Like, dude, you could sell a million copies of your book, right? That is what I'm talking about, of holding people to a high standard that they are capable of achieving while also doing it with love and compassion and kindness.

[01:15:59] Paul: I love that. Do you have a list right now of people you want to have on your podcast?

[01:16:05] Danny Miranda: I should. When I go back to the cabin, I will have a list that I will create.

[01:16:10] Paul: The next 100.

[01:16:12] Danny Miranda: But I mean, right now it's like Eckhart Tolle, Michael Singer, Mike Posner, Russ, Israel Adesanya, Jocko Willink, David Goggins. I know you don't resonate with some of these people, but it's like, I want to bring the best meditators, the best warriors, and let's have conversations to get better as human beings. And that's really what I'm about.

[01:16:36] Paul: I mean, if you're interested in people, it piques my curiosity too. This is the coolest thing about podcasts is you can get Danny Miranda's lens on that person. And I know it's going to be a deeper, more thoughtful lens, right? Whereas if Jocko Willink goes on, it's like some like more hustle podcast, it's— they're going to talk about like tactics and like all these things. It's not going to be the best interview. Um, so, and yeah, you can listen to the same person on 100 different podcasts and get 100 different stories.

So sometimes not. I think one of the most interesting was Kevin Kelly. Did you interview Kevin Kelly?

[01:17:20] Danny Miranda: I did. I think he's episode 101 of the podcast.

[01:17:23] Paul: The interesting thing about him is he is such an interesting person that literally every podcast appearance is different. Like, he's had so many lives, so many adventures. And like, I feel like it's an interesting goal that if you did a ton of podcasts, everyone would be uniquely special for people. I don't think I'm at that point with my life yet. And that's actually an interesting goal. Like, can I go on podcasts in my 70s and everyone will be interesting, weird, and different because you've lived so many different lives?

Yeah, maybe that's my goal.

[01:17:58] Danny Miranda: There you go. Well, I mean, it's like having— it's like, what are you trying to optimize for? Right? To some people, it's like living many different lives is the most interesting path that they could possibly do. That is thinking big. Because maybe inside of them, they only want to live one life in the first iteration.

And so, yeah, I think it's very important to think about for yourself, who are the people you admire and why do you admire them and what is it about them that I think is an important thing to think about when thinking big.

[01:18:33] Paul: Who are the Path role models that are alive for you right now?

[01:18:36] Danny Miranda: That's a good question. That's like a good way of saying, who are your mentors? But in a very Paul way.

[01:18:42] Paul: This is what we call it on The Pathless Path. Path role models.

[01:18:45] Danny Miranda: I love that. I love that so much. It's people who are living lives on their own terms that are using the internet to build their futures. So you're one of those people. I would say a few others that come to mind are like David Perel, Chris Williamson, and also people who have done it. At the highest levels, like Rogan, Gary Vaynerchuk.

Those are people that come to mind initially for path mentors.

[01:19:17] Paul: Yeah. What jumps out? Somebody like Rogan.

[01:19:23] Danny Miranda: I mean, he has executed the thing that I am doing and that I'm devoting my life to at the highest of levels. And what it deeply is, is his ability to communicate thoughts is so good. And I admire his ability to communicate what is on his mind in succinct and helpful ways to other people. So that's what comes to mind.

[01:19:47] Paul: I love it. So wanted to close out this conversation and offer you the chance to give a challenge to my audience. I love that this is something you do in all your podcast episodes. I totally came up with this on the spot. It's very emergent. But yeah, what's a challenge you would give to The Pathless Path audience?

[01:20:15] Danny Miranda: I would say to meditate 20 minutes a day for 30 straight days, probably 90, honestly, because 90 is when I saw the benefits from it. And if I had stopped after 30, it would be a different thing. So 20 minutes a day for 90 straight days. And you will get a closer understanding of what you actually value. When you do that, you might not be in a place where you are following your life's work at the end of the 90 days, because I certainly wasn't. But I had a deeper understanding of myself.

I had more kindness, more compassion, more love for myself, and I was able to notice the ways in which my mind was playing tricks on me and change those things. So meditate 20 minutes a day for 90 straight days. Have a kitchen timer. Maybe ideally do it in the morning. And be in a different— like, don't do it in your bed. You can't do it in your bed, but you can do it anywhere else as long as your back is straight and just close your eyes and pay attention to the voice in your head.

Because becoming friends with the voice in your head is the most important thing I believe any of us will ever do. And meditating has gotten me to that place, a closer place of becoming friends with myself. So that's my challenge. 20 minutes a day for 90 days straight.